Creative Couple Series: Judy & Oscar
Photo by Trevor Orton
Judy Kim and Oscar D. Rave are a creative couple living in Portland, Oregon. Judy works in the creative industry as a senior designer and Oscar works in health care, providing physical therapy to ill or compromised senior citizens. They are both avid photographers who see living as an integral part of their practice.
Shirley: Judy and Oscar, we are so excited to talk to you both! The last time we all saw each other was February in Portland. Judy, I met you through our dear friend Nicole. I have a distinct memory of you that night at Instrument’s Halloween party. I remember you were a ghost with a really long wig, and whenever there was a Drake song, you threw the wig up. And Oscar, I met you at another Instrument party. I was up in the clouds with ganja that night, so when I was talking to you, I excused myself to go to the bathroom, but wound up taking a Lyft home. I’m sorry about that [laughs]. Again, super excited to talk to you both, would you mind introducing yourselves briefly?
Judy: I was born in Korea, immigrated to North America, and lived all over Ontario. Right now I identify as a Korean-Canadian-Asian American immigrant. I identify as she/her. Currently I work at Instrument and am a senior designer there. One of the things I care about is “play,” this idea of experimenting. I think I am deep down an artist pretending to be a designer. I really care about the marginalized and underrepresented, especially with what’s happening in the world now. I feel weird posting banana bread and the joy of making food in quarantine life, and I'm starting to dig into social justice and fighting white supremacy within my focus of the creative industry.
Oscar: I am originally from Colombia. I was brought to the U.S. when I was 7, and grew up between New Jersey and Miami. For 17 years of my life in the U.S., I was undocumented, so I have experience as part of a marginalized and “nonexistent” class. A lot of my experience growing up was surviving in the U.S. When I became documented, I went to the University of Florida to study criminology, and then came here to Oregon to give West Coast a try. I recently graduated with a doctorate in physical therapy. I finally feel like I’m in the adulthood of my life at 32. The fact that it happened later in life made me more present and cherish the experiences of the last few years. One of my biggest goals is to give back to my community. To be able to do that, I’m now beginning to look for the resources to educate myself and build a toolbox to address a lot of the systemic issues that are happening in the US.
Shirley: You studied criminology and then transitioned over to physical therapy; what made you do that?
Oscar: I graduated community college and the choice was either law school or physical therapy. With criminology, I figured I’d be introduced to law and politics. I minored in philosophy, since I thought the courses in law school would require building arguments and making informed opinions. I took an internship with the House of Representatives in the state of Florida, following two state representatives. I thought maybe I want to practice policy work and affect change in a broader scale. I got to a point where I was seeing back door policies and side deals. There was this moment when I saw a constituent for one of my representatives, he gave her a big book of signatures that he gathered from his community to pass Medicare for All in Florida. He was with all these people and cameras everywhere; a whole show was created. But I was sitting in the sidelines, knowing it would go right in the trash. It was heartbreaking and I realized I can’t trust the system, so maybe I need to find different path. So I went into physical therapy. I work in home health now and predominately with the older population.
Shirley: How did you both meet? What were your first impressions of each other? What made you feel that he/she was the one?
Judy: We met on Tinder. I swiped right and messaged Oscar first. I was intrigued by his photos, they were very different. I actually asked him if he was a photographer. A lot of his pictures were of him holding a camera. For the first date, instead of dinner or drinks, he asked, do you want to take photos together? I was like “Oh, shit!” [Laughs.]
Oscar: I couldn’t see Tinder as something with the means to create a healthy relationship with people. She was the last person I matched with; it was the perfect match. I was excited to meet someone who, through chatting, seemed like a cool person. She has a lot of energy. I was really excited that she was engaging and real. She told me she was a designer, so I thought maybe she would enjoy photography. I had just started to get into photography. My mom’s side of the family has sculptors, musicians, dancers, and my mom herself was an interior decorator. I would follow her and we would be making things. It’s cool to go on this journey with someone like Judy, and it’s been fun ever since.
Judy: It’s funny because in his Tinder description was: 3 vices that all starts with a W. “Women” was one of them [laughs]. I don’t like playboys. But one of my first impressions of Oscar is that he always talks about his mom. It’s something very special and revealing when men love their mothers, or have love for women in general. My assumption was destroyed after seeing how much Oscar cares about his mother. It was really genuine. He was so curious and asked so many questions. Our date actually lasted 11 hours. We just kept asking each other questions!
Shirley: Both of you are very fascinating and thoughtful people. One of the reasons why I respond so much to both of your photography is that you manage to bring nostalgia in your work. I say that because we’re living in this age where folks have a camera phone and you see a lot of the same shots over and over. Can you talk a little bit about how you started with photography and where your inspiration comes from?
Judy: In high school we had a photography class. But Oscar introduced me to how accessible it was. In high school, I did the whole developing thing. Then I realized you don’t have to do all that. I got into photography because I always loved taking photos of my friends. I started doing point-and-shoot and I think photography links back to my love for image-making. I took art all throughout high school and I felt energized by it. I couldn’t afford a digital camera, but I finally saved up in university. I bought a camera and started dabbling in it. Travel was a thing I would do every year, and every time I traveled I took a lot of photos; they were my souvenirs. That’s how I got into photography regularly. I think of my photos as graphic design; I care about the composition. I feel weird calling myself a photographer and this form of commercialism that comes with it. I’m still exploring that. Can I do both? Can I do fine arts photography and the kind of commercial photography that I am interested in?
Oscar: I got into photography when I moved out here to Oregon. I never owned a camera except for a phone. I had a GoPro at one time and sold it and used the money to buy my first camera, a digital camera. My roommates at the time were really into photography as well. I didn’t think I was being intentional about it, but when my friend introduced me to film, I immediately saw something. When she said, you take one picture and that’s it, that’s when I started caring and being more intentional about it. It’s been a journey; it’s only been a year. I didn’t have direction but I really enjoy taking pictures of people and portraits. The more I try to find a niche or a specific type of picture, I feel like I’m restricting the boundaries. So I’m learning to be a little bit more open to the overwhelming forms of photography that exist. I just really like the hobby, it’s really cool to capture these moments, a still in time.
Judy: We’re shy photographers.
Shirley: Judy, the thing that I appreciate about your photos is that there’s a focus on landscapes and the way how you set up the shot and play with space makes it feel very candid. And Oscar, the portraits you take gives me this intense, moody feel to it. What conversation do you hope to bring when it comes to shooting your photos?
Oscar: One of the things I really like or try to do, where I’m finding myself leaning towards, is that I want to snap a moment in time that an aspect of myself can relate to. You could not know the person, you could not know the place, you could not know anything, yet you know exactly what’s happening here in that moment. Appealing towards these consistent human aspects even amongst strangers. I do tend to go for the more moody stuff. I like heaviness. One time we were at Judy’s old place watching a documentary on Alexander McQueen. I don’t know anything about him, but there was a part where someone goes up to him after one of his shows and said they hated it. He replied, “That’s the whole purpose of it, I want you to feel something.” I want you to feel something even if it’s hate, and sit there with that feeling.
Judy: For me, it depends on what I’m working on or maybe it’s the designer in me. I hope I can diversify and stretch. The other day, I dabbled into sports photography; we took images of boxers and athletes. I always think, what new perspective can I bring? How can I create imagery that has a point of view that only I can see? There’s aspects of photography where we’re loose with it, and other times where I’m thinking of a concept. We did a really interesting photoshoot together called “Eden’s Labyrinth” around the idea that your body is a garden. I’m largely interested in what can the viewer discover in this visual narrative? Continuing, I want to capture Asian beauty. It’s something I’ve been stewing on in the midst of COVID-19, the shit that was happening to our community. I thought a lot about what type of art I cared about during quarantine. I do deeply care about showing imagery on the subtleties of the Asian experience. I was really inspired by your [Shirley & Hui’s] art show where you have elements of our upbringing and normalizing it. Creating work and imagery so we the immigrants are not the other. Empowering immigrants and normalizing that.
“Eden’s Labyrinth,” Judy and Oscar’s collaborative project exploring the body as a garden
Shirley: I think photography is a conversation between the photographer and the subject. I’m curious how you balance your vision and exercise your aesthetics that satisfy both parties when it comes to the photo?
Judy: This question really resonates because I’m currently trying to execute a project with a friend. The moment I saw him, I’m like, he’s so special, he has this energy and is so confident with who he is. Like I want to intentionally take portraits. With this project, I also want him to have full agency and see how he wanted to be seen. We call it the ultimate selfie. I got him to send me his favorite photos of himself and I studied it. Then I got him to explain exactly why do you like this photo of yourself and explain to me so I can see how he likes to see himself. I’m exploring this space that’s not subject nor photographer, but dancing together to create this ultimate image. Nothing is worse than when you do all this setup and take the photos and you hate every one of them.
Oscar: I prefer a more candid portrait because I have a hard time directing someone. Part of me wants to take a picture of you in your nature; pose how you like to pose and I will direct that. I want the person to feel comfortable. It's really hard because sometimes the subject look at you for guidance, there's this huge space of not knowing what to do that is hard to manage. I grew up in a family where they didn’t like their picture taken. Judy, she will just take the picture, but I may be like, wait, maybe they don’t want that. I always have this respect first attitude. Sometimes there's an awesome picture you want to take, like you may never see this again. A picture is like a snowflake, it doesn't repeat, so I also don’t want to take that away from someone. It’s a weird dance and I'm learning to be comfortable and to maneuver around that.
Shirley: Establishing that trust is so important. Both of you have different ways of approaching photography when it comes to ethics. How do you help each other out there? Does your partner influence your work in any way?
Oscar: I put myself in check first and [try to figure out why I might be uncomfortable.] It’s never those kinds of situations where something really bad is happening right in front of you, but whenever it does presents itself, I immediately take a step back and wonder what’s the right thing to do. I love her pictures, I’m a huge fan. I don’t want to get in between someone’s work and appreciation of what’s in front of them. If I ever take a picture of her, I just want her to feel comfortable. She’s my favorite subject. She’s very supportive, and I feel very new in this environment, and she not only provides guidance but creates space for me. She’s definitely opened up my horizons.
Judy: He balances me out. I'm fire and he’s like water. Oscar asks thought-provoking questions. I'm the type of person who asks for forgiveness later. Oscar is respecting whatever is going on that is beyond just you. Because of the chase of that moment, I get hungry for it. He’s such a grounded reminder for me to have more compassion with what I’m about to take. There has to be a sense of respect for what you’re doing. I also love going on photo adventures with him because he brings me down to earth; I can get floaty and lost. He gives good prompts that I always revisit later. And we’ve never fought about it.
Oscar: It's good to keep it healthy.
Judy: Oscar, as a subject, he completely surrenders. It’s so cool to take photos of a person who completely trusts your eye. I’m very critical with aesthetics, as I’m trained to be as a designer. But Oscar just wants to play. He’s my favorite and he’s a subject that I try to emulate. It's a good exercise to be the subject because it creates empathy.
Shirley: Do you ever drag friends into an adventure, and how do you know where to go in terms of places and locations?
Oscar: Pre-COVID I was in a school-minded headspace. I did take pictures prior to that, but I just wasn’t going out as often. There was the opportunity before COVID and I assume that there’ll still be after COVID. It won’t last forever, eventually we’ll figure out a way to keep this under control, to really manage this like any other flu we’ve dealt with so far. I do foresee us getting out. Post-COVID, we’re going to take advantage of what we didn’t do before. Taking more pictures outdoors, and even indoors. I would like to be open to the creative aspect of working on staged photography with a particular theme in mind. Also just to enjoy that with other people who partake in the same hobby, just to add more creativity into the overall art form.
Judy: There’s no going back. I can’t unsee what I’ve seen and I’m not going back. What that means for me is that I think I’m going to continue. Oscar and I went to see the stonehenges in Oregon, these beautiful, raw, man-made concrete forms contrasted against greenery. I would love to explore Oregon because Oregon is so vast; we have a desert here. We talked about going and it’s important for me to travel intentionally and sustainably. I can’t see it just about making imagery. I have a lot of fun with Oscar making images just for the sake of making, and it’s a beautiful practice, but for me the real work when creating this imagery is to push forward. What connects me and Oscar within the hobby of photography is this love of travel. People say, what do you miss or would you want to go back? No, now is the time. Part of our partnership is to provide room to go after what we care about.
Shirley: What advice would you give someone that’s starting when it comes to buying their first camera or photography in general?
Oscar: You don’t need a $1000 camera. With just $50 you can buy a camera and start from there. I like the fundamentals, which I had skipped a lot. Now I realize that I didn’t properly learn about the medium itself. You really want to expose your eye and your creativity as best as you can. Sometimes you are limited to your tools, but it's important to understand your tool because it will give you more power and help you facilitate that image you want to create. It’s important to be kinder to yourself. Don’t go for what’s cool or what people will like. Go with what you like and you’ll enjoy the process a lot more and develop it into a long-term hobby. One of my favorite film cameras was given to me by one of my patients. He was 70 years old and we were just talking about cameras. The next day he brought a Minolta with all these lenses and flash and a reader for something. I was like, oh my Lord. He said, “I’ve had it for 20 years in my garage.” I was still a student at the time. He offered it to me for $100; the whole thing cost over a grand 20 years ago. There’s time and energy that you are going to expend, so really care about it and don’t let it be something that’s going to sit in your garage and not used again.
Judy: Don’t be insecure about your tools; break your tools. Solange, on one of the tracks in A Seat at the Table, she made the beat out of a toy xylophone. Don’t be insecure. You’re still a photographer even if you have a $20 camera. Photography goes beyond what expensive lenses you own. Develop your creative confidence, because you are creative.
Shirley: What little quirk do you love about your partner?
Oscar: Whenever it’s not a heavy day, we’re feeling excited, something she does is that she caters to her child side and allows herself to own that. It can be very animated. I can tell she’s not like that around everyone, so it does require more trust and comfort. It’s a rare moment and worth valuing.
Judy: I love so many things, it’s so insane. His quirk is that he’s so curious about everything. He has so many questions about everything. I love that Oscar can’t kill a spider. He is one of the strongest people I know. He has a lot of mental strength and he can handle a lot of stress. So when I see him stress about a spider it’s hilarious. He gets erratic and heightened. The scream that comes out of this man [laughs].
Shirley: Thank you both so much for your time and we appreciate you for providing so much insight. This was such a fun conversation!
Photography by Judy Kim and Oscar D. Rave
Interview by NSC